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 the oldest Ancient words for marriage literal meanings 
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Post Re: the oldest Ancient words for marriage literal meanings
aa cow and an ox are similar, yet different. you cannot cross breed them because they are too different. same with a sheep and a goat, they are similar but different. now in Chinese sheep and goats are called the same name "Yang" and oxen and cows are both called "Niu", however thats because their language has not updated from thier primitive thinking days when the language was made, it does not make it correct to say "it's the same thing", a sheep is a sheep, a goat is a goat, a cow is a cow, and an ox is an ox they have different names because of their slight differences which make them different animals.

In the same way it's foolish to say "marriage" and "having a concubine" are essentially the same thing. because they are not. in the same way a learner's driving permit is not a driver's license and a standard driver's license is not a truck or bus grade license, and none of those is even close to a pilot's license! and in pilots licenses there are grades for small planes and grades for commercial planes.

sure go ahead, go buy a big ol tractortrailer and try to drive it with a normal car license. the first time you get to a weigh station on an interstate highway they're going to look at your license and say "no, your other license please" and when you inform them you don't have a truck license they'll assume you have one coming in the mail but haven't been able to get it yet and ask when you'll be able to get it, or demand to see it within one week. and if you fail to provide it, you're going to jail. same with flying a plane with a car license without a Airplane licensed instructor in the plane with you.

marriage and concubineship are different words because the contract is different.

Hagar and Ishmael, Hagar was Abram's handmaiden, she was not even a concubine, it would normally be forbidden for Abram to have sex with his wife's handmaiden, she was merely a caretaker for Sarai, Sarai's personal lady servant for lady matters.

These matters involved cleaning her garments, cooking her food, providing her medicines to try to induce her fertility or milk production, washing blood stains from menstruation out of the sheets etc.

But because it didn't work, and Sarai was still barren, and Sarai in her old age lost faith, decided to "give Hagar to Abram to wife", she wasn't a concubine she was in the office of a wife, she was married. this is a Choice that was made. See when Hagar was married she had a right to call herself the mother of the child, this is different than in a concubineship! in a concubineship the official legal mother of the child is the one for whom you were hired to bear a child, like in a surrogacy, except in a surrogacy some right to the child remains the sole choice of the bearer. Lets list this out clearly so you can compare the differences in these offices.

Marriage: the contract to make children as a wife, a wife has legal right to call herself the mother of the child, she has legal right to claim authority over the child, she has legal right to have the child claim to be her heir, and they are considered to be of the same bloodline and inherit the same family names (they use the father and mother's names). as a wife they have a contractual agreement for the man to support them and their children from the marriage, this includes treating to luxuries to make your wife feel loved.

Surrogate: a surrogate is someone hired to bear a child for you. an additional contract can be administered to grant or restrict rights. But without an additioanl contract the surrogate has a right to reimbursement for food and expenses during the 9 months, and reimbursement for the hardship of labour, and reimbursement and support during the weaning of the child. After which time the surrogate has a right to keep the child and pay back some/all of her upkeep, she will also not recieve any more funding for herself or the child in this case or it is at the hirer's discretion. If she does not choose to keep the child, then the contract is fulfilled and she gets to keep her payment, the child is signed over to the adoptive mother, and now the surrogate has no more claim to the child, his bloodline nor his estate etc. The surrogate is then free to leave as the contract is finished and she will recieve no more imbursement unless she can negotiate more services with new contracts.

Concubine: the contract to hold yourself from other men as a virgin in case there are child bearing troubles. the job of the office is as a Maid in the meantime if her uterus is not needed at that time, then she will earn her keep providing things like massage, cooking sewing and other work for the man, her job entails feeding the man medicine to increase his fertility or sperm count. Her Job is to make him ready to impregnate his wife. If she enters into a surrogacy as a concubine, she has no right to keep the child, she has no choice, the child is deemed her master's wife's, the child will not inherit the concubine's family name, she cannot claim her own child as her heir, the concubine is not considered as of the same bloodline of the child, the concubine has no right to request support for herself other than was already agreed as a concubine, aka a set salary, don't expect any gifts nor luxuries. She should not expect an upgrade to "Wife" status unless her master chooses to do so out of his own free will.

Handmaid: the hand maid is a female aide to a woman of stately birth. Or a hired aide for a woman for the hardships of her life and or marriage. the handmaid cannot marry nor court men while in this office except at the discretion of her Masters, because then there would be some other man constantly visiting the handmaid, or in the same camp one tent over from The Master's Wife. This is expressly forbidden as shenanigans could ensue. The hand maid lives with and takes care of her mistress. Cooking for her, cleaning for her and dealing with nutrition. She typically has no interaction with the husband unless he asks her to do something for his wife. She is at her master's wife's discretion, yet she is not a slave she has a right to deny a surrogacy request or to request an additional contract for that purpose (as it is not with-in her normal job description).

Sex-Slave: a sex slave is a cum bucket. There is a contract, the slave has no right to anything, they are considered as owing a life long debt, they do what their master tells them, she is considered a servant, she must refrain from other men, unless re-sold to them. Their children are often slaves themselves, born into slavery, the master can do what he pleases with their children including resell them as servants or labourers to others. the master can additionally keep them as his own labourers even if they will never see their mother again being kept in a different place. The Master Can decide to use a sex slave as a surrogate, but it'll be his last choice, he'd normally find someone of stately birth like a maid or concubine. In event she is used as a surrogate there is no right for her to request any further contract, the master can decide at his own discretion to upgrade her status to concubine or wife. but that is a rare practice.


as you can see the contracts and interactions of these offices are completely different. they have different responsibilities and different rights.

you cannot equate them to a marriage, as that is not the primary purpose of the relationship.

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Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:39 am
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Post Re: the oldest Ancient words for marriage literal meanings
Okay, the differentiation is made clear. The past could have a lot of complications. Even the ancient word parts are complicated. For those moments, I thought that the translated words meant as you said, 'cum bucket', since technically the parts form the meaning vagina and something like that. I was thinking, "well, surely other status have the 'cum bucket' function to some degree. I was also thinking that the interpretation of marriage as 'cum bucket', was completely wrong.

It's just my personal opinion that marriage constitutes some familial organization. After all, it's defined as a social/societal contract or union than just biological riff-raff. Someone who parades marriage as just some sex act is way off kelter!

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Post Re: the oldest Ancient words for marriage literal meanings
The point was that the jewish meaning is the closest to said "off kelter" interpretation and thus funny and worth a mention.

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Post Re: the oldest Ancient words for marriage literal meanings
I hope not that the Israelian definition is a reflection of that action. Otherwise, one would believe that there are rapacious/rapist jews mucking about. If taken seriously (and without consent), such connotations will only further justify the Mein Kampf, that racial ideology book. And thus, further the ignition of both violent actions and reactions in eventual inevitability. Of course, if marriage is supposed to have offspring by ceremony than law, I get the general idea, it's just better to have a much clearer definition.

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Post Re: the oldest Ancient words for marriage literal meanings
RV-007 wrote:
I hope not that the Israelian definition is a reflection of that action. Otherwise, one would believe that there are rapacious/rapist jews mucking about. If taken seriously (and without consent), such connotations will only further justify the Mein Kampf, that racial ideology book. And thus, further the ignition of both violent actions and reactions in eventual inevitability. Of course, if marriage is supposed to have offspring by ceremony than law, I get the general idea, it's just better to have a much clearer definition.


It's one of the most ancient alpha bets in existance, it was around before greek or latin. it may even be on par with phoenician or even older! it may be the first alphabetic written language, even so, we can tell from the bible what the world was like in the age that it was developed, it was only a few generations after the flood of Noah, civilization was just starting up again, people had spread into small kingdom tribes, whose view of the world was that they had nigh infinite land (compared to their small populace) which they could make use of.

There had alreayd been 1 world war, which at that time was the whole population of the world, so technically what we know as WWII was infact WWIII and the next world war will be WWIV

Their view was: land is good to grow plants and animals for food and clothes and building materials. In order for this to succeed, it'd be much easier if we had a few more men to do the labour work! besides there is infinite land, after they work they can just go start their own kingdom on their own land. So we need to breed and breed a lot!

And so that was their primary focus. This establishes their mindset, which then explains the rather frank and abrupt manner of describing marriage as "the producing of offspring via the genital liquids". In their time and their world that was it. that was perfectly acceptable as the description of a marriage. as time went on though people had questions like "well, after you've had your offspring can I use her to have mine?" and the answer was "FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING CUCK, NO, WAIT, I'LL KILL YOU FOR SUGGESTING IT :x " to which laws were made and later languages would include terminology in their version of the word to describe this kind of "contract" so there was less ambiguity. "mother and contract" soo... if it's a contract then how long do they stay in that contract? the woman and her children will have financial support for the rest of the child's life according to the contract, and the parents will likely die before then, so till death. so no cuckery then? no.

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Post Re: the oldest Ancient words for marriage literal meanings
It appears that there is an biological competition reason behind the word marriage. This biological mindset of envy would initiate some sort of sexual competition behavior as some requirement to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Of course, marriage could be seen as some protective mechanism of social/sexual need. Of course, social than solidary animals would benefit with the assignment of some identity or function. However, social benefits are not insurance, are not guarantee. Exile can happen.

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Post Re: the oldest Ancient words for marriage literal meanings
How does polyamory fit into this equation?

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Post Re: the oldest Ancient words for marriage literal meanings
Odin Anarki wrote:
How does polyamory fit into this equation?


polyamory has a different word root entirely in greek. poly amore. Poly means many, amore means to love the atmosphere given off by something. It means literally "a lover of the atmosphere given off by many things"

it's not a form of marriage nor a form of contract.

Polygamy is a different matter, it has Poly, meaning "Many", and Gamete meaning "Wife" in greek. It started as a counter for marriages and would have originally been treated as the two separate greek words kinda like you might say "I have a lot of apples" so it was a quantity descriptor or "counter", note it only is available in the form of multiple wives, if it was about women taking multiple husbands it'd be polygamys. but in ancient times for the described reasoning given in the description of marriage this was considered a deviant and shameful practice, some cultures even would not legally allow it (Rome in example) However in Rome Polygamy was normal.

lets clear this up, so Latin's word is polygamia however this is not pure latin, and was developed in later itallian times, it is not ancient latin. you can see from the word construction that this was a word adopted in Latin from Greek. So if polygamy was prevalent in ancient rome, how did they not have a word for it?

Simple, it was normal, it had been normal in all ancient cultures leading up to Rome. it was just considered +1 marriage. The word root starts with the offender: the Greeks. No doubt the greeks were emotionally sensitive and felt some prohibition about polygamy enough to create a term to reference it. That or it was a term devised as a form of braggary "I have Many wives" and such braggary may have developed the prohibitions about it due to the feeling of repulsion of listeners to the braggart.

Originally not a negative term, beta males of the time would have made it a shameful point of conversation.

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Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:22 am
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