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 Fixing the IRL Economy 
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Post Fixing the IRL Economy
This is going to be a serious thread about how I believe the economy should function after years of experiencing it and seeing the mechanisms currently instated.

Right now the mechanisms instated in the economy are unsustainable. They include pay based on time, and unjust payshares. for example just a few years back in 2018 the payshare was 50% for the company 50% for the worker, in 2019 it became 60% company 40% worker, and in 2022 it's now 30% worker, 70% company.

This also brings capital limitations into consideration as the lionshare 70% is practically just going into a world-wide investment casino. it's incredibly irresponsible. and the worst part? there is actually too much money in the world now. To the point that less than 10 of the richest people in the world could literally buy all the food in the world for long enough to starve everyone. That is too much financial control.

Having noticed this I observed how it got this bad. and it largely has to do with payment concepts in tradition such as; Time is money. People have not been able to see outside this concept.

time is not money. money represents value created. just because you are spending time doing something doesn't mean you will create value. for example when food is farmed, there's a chance no one will buy it. that food unlike money has a usage life, after which time it's too old to use, then you have to spend more time and effort to make it into something that will last longer. but even preserved food has it's limits in years. then there's waste.

This means that if there is guaranteed to be some % of waste and you are paying per hour, (or per week or biweekly or per month or per year), some of the value you were paid for never actually sold, or never made it to market. it is waste but you still got paid. now there is extra money in the economy that doesn't represent any value in product, nor service. it seems fine so long as people don't all try to go out and spend it all. but from time to time this is not the case causing supply shortages.

It's like a bunch of cows grazing on grass down hill and across a stream from a field of cabbage with no fence. it's fine for a long time till the wind blows in direction of a bull and suddenly the whole herd is munching on the cabbage instead of grass. now theres none left.

It's a negative situation that comes and goes.

Instead, pay should be based on the creation of value which sold.

but then you need to have entire supply chains follow this rule, because for example the farm sells the food to stores and distribution companies , they might sell 90% of it and 10% went bad. so does that mean that 90% is a definite value? nope, not until the final consumer buys it for use. Basically no one in the chain should make money till a final consumer buys something.

but then they have to share the profits, "surely my work is of more value than yours right?", this becomes a problem, instead there should be a clear list of ways to determine which percent of the value you aught to have, and that has to do with: Time, Effort, Physical Risk, required Skill/knowledge, and consumation of products that went into it happening.
Time = Time, this needs to be true in the whole supply chain, JCPenny Style. No one person's Time should be worth more than another's in the chain.
But then there are the modifiers: Effort can raise the value of time, but it's not guaranteed. So care must be taken to record the percent of potential value each person in the chain has produced in the course of each hour of their work.
Next is Physical Risk, this is by far the most expensive modifier. You can't milk a dead cow twice, you're lucky to milk it once. But then you get into insurance and money pots and have to pay for risk prevention training and analysts, that costs extra money on the product when it's quite possible nothing will happen. Some of this needs to be there, Safety training is kinda a must, but it itself is not a high risk job, and doesn't take much effort, nor time. so actually it should be cheap. however the analysts should also be cheap, it may take a bit of time and a moderate amount of effort, skill and knowledge but there is no risk. paper work does consume a little bit of product, but it's largely negligable. But in such an event, you do need to cover the cost. and for that you need to assess how much everything is worth. An arm or a leg is worth 1/4th to 1/2 your work speed depending on if you need legs to do it, + medicine, +doctor's time, +recovery time etc. 1/4th what speed? Continual Speed. It makes you 1.25x as expensive a worker. but at that point after your paid recovery, it's probably best you find another job if you can't keep up with the same speed as at least a normal worker. No wait we have a calculation for that don't we, time * (effort, knowledge and skill to produce). people can't keep paying for your welfare because of your mistake. now if it was someone else's mistake (as it more often is, I mean honestly who is going to be stupid enough to place a limb in a compromising position where it might be lost? appart from the village moron (Lacking knowledge = less pay.. oh yeah..) it's likely to be that your boss or a supervisor or someone else assured you that this was the correct proceedure. They should pay for the difference in what you produced before and what you produced after, but they themselves shouldn't be paid extra to cover it, this means the cost of your hospital bills is the only thing that gets forwarded to the customer divided tot he total number of goods during that time. but there's also Private Value of damages and that is gauged based on ability to maintain wellbeing. I mean imagine the personal value of a fapping hand. imagine if you lost both hands. Now someone needs to be PAID to get you off.

Effort, Skill, and Knowledge are Equal. Because their value is only apparent in the modification of Time to Value. more of them in any combination can make more product faster. but theres also a level where they become redundant. paperwork and analysis and training are probably not needed very much. in today's world most companies have their own salaried specialists in these areas. that probably shouldn't be the case. instead it should probably be a service supplied by the government, after all they are trianing you to follow The Law and analysing the best way to Keep Your Work From Causing Legal Damages.

This determines the percent of total profit you get from the sale. it also means if you are the lazy ass :black that just stands around chatting, you have a share of 0%. or if you only produced 10 out of 10000 you have a profit share of 0.1% in example. but this doesn't count administration which as stated will not be a high pay job, it'll be the job no one will want to do, or the kind of job where you work for multipe companies at a time to get enough share percent, or the kinda job where you do it after work in addition to your basic production work. Hey that sounds right, the boss should be flipping burgers the same as you, he should try to finish the admin work as fast as possible and get back to burger flipping because the admin work barely pays.


but what about resale? you know goods that last for a very long time longer than you likely need them, to the point you'll likely resell them when you are done with them. thats all about condition rather than time or effort etc. unless you repaired it to new. but even then if you lopped off your dick doing it you can't feasibly charge for that. thats your own fault. moron. and if someone else caused it you can't charge for that either, thats between you knuckleheads. and if the cost of the repairs exceeds the value of a new one, you better have included some new value or feature that the old one did not have to cover that cost difference otherwise it's better to just keep the repaired thing for yourself. In example if a house can be built for 45000, but you fixed up your old house to make it as good as new, but it cost you 10,000 extra, you can't justify selling it for 55000 when a new house is 45000.

So with resale you need to justify your listing price "I put in a pool table, and it comes with an oven and fridge and dishwasher and clothes washer and dryer and 3 years of 100mb/sec broadband prepaid" then the law has to itemize and tell you the legal price for such additions and workmanship. and even then a customer has the right to reject add-ons they don't want with-in reason. if you can take it with you easily or remove it easily then it's considered optional but something like an in-ground pool.. yeah you're stuck with that.




What about Entertainment? well here it's the same calc, time and effort etc. divided total value (number of units created). but how do you set that value? it's not that hard to set value based on other jobs in the market. For example you make a movie and put it on a dvd, and reprint millions of dvds, well each dvd is valued at the cost of the physical materials and time and effort knowledge and skill needed to make it, then you are the producer of the content on it, you could charge per byte based on CPU time and other physical factors like camera and film or hard-disk/computer life and electricity use, but that still pays the actual creator of the content 0%.

rather, you see the effort, knowledge and skill of each person that went into the production of it based on the average hours of the average worker in their supply chain.

but yes, you need to be part of the DVD production supply chain model of business then! because they shouldn't make money just because you bought a billion DVDs when none sold. this however treats products bought for resale different than products bought for end-user use they are different chains and regulations will have to ensure that companies are not allowed to buy end-user supplies for product use simply because it could lead to Money Laundering. Imagine a private DVD manufacturer with like 10 people in a small facility making tons of blank DVDs) got into a big movie studio, so they have that studio with all it's money buy up billions of disks to maximize end user sales and get rich quick even though the studio wont make money till users by their final movie DvD. It's wrong, the supply chain is broken, it's a conflict of interest. This is illegal you know! even if the dvd company is owned by a close friend, it's still wrong, any time you agree to bend rules to make someone rich it's wrong, especially because it's likely they will give you a private kickback turning company finance into personal finance, thus money laundering.

But companies change DVDs are a thing of the past, it's all online streaming now. Pay per view. if that legal? can they switch supply chains? can they have more than one supply chain at a time? yes, thats fine but they need to notify all their chains what chains they are in. because that will likely determine the amount of physical product companies are likely to give them. or maybe even turn DVD sales in example into a catalogue thing. where it's not made till it's ordered.

keep in mind the average payrate of someone producing a physical something will always be more than someone sitting at a server and applying periodic updates and maintenance, ITs will likely need several jobs. and the type of work to make the movie can then be Classed. people making 3D effects; same as the rate for administrative paper work, maybe a bit more knowledge is needed so a bit higher rate but much lower than a regular worker. people making physical stage designs? maybe more, the physical set prop can be sold after the fact in some cases as a toy, you could end up in business making lightsabers and darthvader helmets.

This illicits a comparison of physical works to Intellectual ones, what really makes them of different value? the answer is that Physical work typically needs to be repeated on a per product basis, where intellectual work typically only needs to get done once for an entire batch or even an entire product. Even if the payrate were the same based on the effort to develop the critical designs in example, thats pretty much it.


This means there needs to be a method to Adjust pay shares when no new value bringing work has been done by a given party. so lets say R&D was 1 person who spent 2 years developing some new tech at 8 hours a day 5 days a week(1920 hours (54.5454545454..%), and now it's getting manufactured by a team of 200 people at 8 hours a day their first shift (1600 hours(45.45454545..%)). at first the pay share of the R&D is higher because of more value bringing hours of work. And as that starts to get paid off, then the payshare shifts continually till theres a 0% share for the R&D and 100% for the physical engineers who continually make the physical product over and over agian.

This process can be the same process for software, R&D will have the lion's share of the profit at first till their wages get paid off and eventually the webserver staff will get 100% of the profits.

Now this doesn't mean the price stays the same either, the price will likely fall to half or lower based solely on the cost of the remaining parts of the supply chain.

So it's all based on the value of the work given. For entertainment products, that means eventually the maker will stop making money from it. they'll have to make something new.

This will lead to companies like microsoftcock incorporated to discontinue older versions. what needs to happen here is if it does not cost them any R&D or more than merely burning a disk or uploading an installer iso to the internet, it'll be deemed that if they discontinue it it becomes their responsibility to continue to supply it AS IS for some nominal hosting fee. Drivers would be a different story, companies like AMD and ATi, Intel etc. would not have to make drivers for every operating system in existance for every peice of hardware they ever make, but they would have to be legally responsible for making such a driver if any one or group of people is willing to finance the creation of such a driver. as in they don't have a right to say "no" just because some company like microsoftcock bought them out and told them "Windows 10 is now!, Cancel all Windows 7 Drivers! NO MORE! we'll pay you billions if you agree." or just because "we don't think thats where our company direction should be because we are all hippie feminazi cucks and trying to progress the NWO." there will be no more of that bullshit. if you make a new super graphics card and one person wants to spend a few thousand to get your driver makers to make a Windows 3.1 driver. you've got to do it sheerly to prove you are not playing politics.


Finally the last part to cover: Capital.

So after the company has paid it's workers, it's allowed to shift payshare from for example R&D, to Capital. Capital however has to be justified, that just means they need to specify what they are likely to spend it on, like a new office building, new printers, etc. and within reason and they need to get authorization to spend the capital, basically the gov needs to check and make sure it's a legitimate thing, and not "'company golfing outing for the CEO"' and not "A billion office chair swivel screws they will never be able to use because they only have 5000 office chairs that take that type of screw." and anything not spent after a set period of time like 1 year gets flushed into Public Funding, this is not a government handled fund and it's meant to keep companies from amassing too much money which could actually be used to make life better in the economy. instead this money is split evenly into every citizen's private retirement fund, somethign they can't access unless they are sick, or unemployed or wanting to retire, it's basically a conditional bank account in their name. to use the money they need to apply for it through the bank which then submits their case tot he government. if the government OKs it then they are allowed the funds.

this is the general idea,
pay work based on the effort skill and knowledge used to do it, but not just by hour, but rather by sales, where the only way to get money is to be part of the production process and not just a pen pusher. where the workers get the lions share first, and the company can only amass capital once everything else is paid and only to a specific level (equal to the amount of potential future projects rough estimate) and if not used by the date given, then it's flushed. it can be regained at any time but it's always time limited to insure the company flushes a lot of money back into the economy.

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Post Re: Fixing the IRL Economy
Man, you' re talking about as if a company is a bronco that could be tamed!

I did read all of the post, but I probably didn't get much of the details.

Workers getting lionshare first would be akin to consumerism/marxism/socialism/communism. It's good to have pay, but remember that capital goods, the services/materials/equipments required for production, is usually the sole, if not central, focus. Without it, workers will have nothing to work on in the first place. Yeah, it's true I might be leaning towards industrialism, if not considered monopoly/oligopoly, than capitalism. Sometimes, that leads to nationalism, imperialism, anti-imperialism, and militarization. There's always a trade-off that needs to be assessed before the teapot explodes.

It's true that you say the (world) economy is going bad, but let's get cynical and pessimistic about it. There's always going to be some fucknut agenda spiraling out of control, and if nobody notices, a new Axis of evil will be born. Nobody's going to trust the (world) economy as some casino. In reality, the (world) economy is a deal over deal, deal under deal, deal equal deal, deal share deal, deal help deal, and deal kill deal set of contracts, made and canceled continuously. People can make their own economic rules and economic insurance ([if] no guarantee). Insurance for economic upheaval? It's pretty hard to get a working insurance for such situations. Sometimes, when there's the talk of economy, you have to think if things will go through. You have to check the progress and predict the results. In times of struggle, you would have yourself and maybe a few handy facts in a unconscious/subconscious primal state of survival.

Heard of Megadeth's "Peace Sells...But Who's Buying?"? A critique about trust.

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As for waste, don't worry about it, there's a recycling economy in research and development working on the problem.

As for the terms of compensation, regardless of the sector, the equation depends on the the steps taken and noting (equation of) progress toward (equation of) goal. Example? I say the more fatal the job, the higher compensation and the higher the honor/status.

As for your critique criticism of Microsoft, I believe that you might appeal to the alternative of the Linux movements.

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Post Re: Fixing the IRL Economy
I should have started with a summary to make it clear.

some things were not easy to understand from that post.

For example, of course all costs of the company are covered, they need to be. they are part of the supply chain after all. electricity, A/C, gas, petrol, oil, water, cleaning , maintenance, theres a lot of things that are necessary here. And they all get the basic cost of operation covered they are based on the effort, skill and knowledge used for producing how much of said resource in how much time. then compare to all the other costs/work in the chain, and determine % of pay share.

lets use an example, a janitor. the janitor makes nothing. they use product to supply a service. but that service is valued in the chain. it provides health and safety and functionality of the work environment. so when you see that, that is the product. it is a crucial product which can speed up or slow down work of other workers. and that amount of productivity can be quantified. imagine for example that the toilets are dirty and no one cleans them. this means 1; the workers could get sick resulting in lost time and lost productivity. or 2; the workers have to spend the time cleaning just so they can take a crap without getting exposed to someone else's clogged shitstream. This too is lost productivity. You can figure out the average loss of productivity when there is a dirty environment and that is the janitor's value.


So everything gets a share of the profit based on the work they did to make it.

and as work stops in the chain, that part of the chain begins to lose it's share. any lost share can be applied to capital. but capital use must be planned and authorized. if not it needs to be dumped back into the economy somehow.


lets try to summarize the core:
Time = number of shares you made in 1 hour * (total Value in the chain / total Shares in the chain).
Shares = the number of products you as an individual made.
Value = total number of products sold.
total Shares = total number of products produced.

that's just a rough calculation it treats every share as 1. but in reality not every share will be 1, some might be 2, or 5.45 or more or with a longer decimal like 1.23456789, it depends on the effort, skill and knowledge that was necessary. knowledge is not equal to knowledge, and effort is not equal to effort, that may sound perplexing, but it's a comparison of effort at one time by one person and effort at another time or by another person. it's likely to differ. Effort can be quantified by a subtraction of the non-simplified ratio of speed and quality of production.

if you are making 1.25 products for every 1 product others are making but your quality is 0.75 as good as theirs, then the result is: 1.25 - (1 - 0.75) = 1, but if your speed and quality are both 1.25 it's: 1.25 - (1 - 1.25) = 1.5! thus for every hour during that period you get 1.5 shares.

Potential physical risk perhaps needs to pay out into the personal Public Fund I talked about. but that's practically "Medical Stamps" instead of "Food Stamps" it's a money that can only be spent on one type of thing. now-a-days they give you a card just like a debit card and if you go to buy toiletpaper on foodstamps the transaction is declined. so medical stamps would only be able to be used to buy medicine or treatment. but the type of access you get to your Emergency fund, is dependent on the situation you apply for. if it's a work injury that will keep you out of work for a bit, then it'll likely have to cover food, medical bills, and rent/utilities. but once it's gone it's gone, but you're not going to be able to spend it on a new Ferrari. and if you are getting injured too frequently compared to other people doing the same job, then it's going to run out fast and it's likely this job is just not right for you, for your own safety, or maybe to need more physical training and accident prevention training. or maybe you don't care because you're a :black that wants to cut corners and do it in a way you find easier but has more risk "yes, boss, I understand... damn boss try'in to tell me how to do my job, I know what I'm doing.. damn I got injured again.." = "sorry your emergency fund is empty, you'll have to pay out of savings." you gunna be a po ass :black

it's also a potential fund for retirement or welfare. but yeah someone has to earn it. some minor amount will come from unspent company capital so it will never truly be 0 for long. and of course there has to be a provision to allow usage of a family member or legal guardians fund for someone who is handicapped to a capacity where they cannot do any work. at which point they get that many extra shares of Emergency cover from their own work as well as flushed company capital.

Of course the emergency fund gets charged to the price of the end products, but does not subtract from the normal wage.

Taxes and Social Security should not subtract from normal wages.

the services and such needed for production may be products in themselves, but will not be the central focus. they are part of the chain., if the end of the chain produces no sales then the entire chain is of no value. $0.00 / a million shares is still $0. "all that work for nothing". it does happen. there are bad companies out there with shitty ideas that never sell. this would fix that as the boss would likely be making less than the workers, or have to work in production himself. he wont have the money to survive on investment. (most bosses in bad companies survive entirely off of private investment of corporate money, largely from the stock market as a freebie)

Further more it'd kill the stock market. the stock market is broken and needs dismantling anyways. there can still be a stock market but it needs to be a Negotiated Corporate Bond market and needs to become part of the chain. it's unlikely that there will be high interest rates. Bond rates are usually pretty low. but this economy format I've come up with will kill the current stock market because the current stock market is based on percent investment in company profit, but in this model there is no company profit! Capital is deemed a separate non-profit fund, only usable for funding necessary future projects to keep the company operating and growing to meet it's customer base's needs. and if not used it gets flushed, not to stock holders, but to average citizens.

The stock market needs to be a kind of Bond Investment, where the company Sells Projects that they cannot completely afford via their own capital to the Bond Market. private persons can negotiate the interest on lending their money to the project. naturally the full project details (a pitchdeck) will be available to said investors to determine if they think it's viable to invest in. so no one is investing blindly. companies should also be able to set investment limits on projects to prevent investment from raising end user prices beyond what is acceptable.

The payout is based on the Percent of money invested by all individual parties, subtracting the company's capital as one party, and also including the unpaid pay shares of every employee in the supply chains.

that's a hard one to envision. but because of the investment limit, the Bond shares will never cause the pay of workers to go down. instead it's likely the workers will be paid with the Bond money thus the profit goes to the Bond holders.

The biggest benefit of this whole economic model is if the price of a product is raised (it's still a free market) those who add the most value in the company are the ones to profit more, which would be the workers in any relevant supply chains that made it possible. but it also Sets Salaries. so the CEO can't define pay shares himself, it becomes a legal matter, pay shares are calculated by what you actually do.

5 hours of board meeting negotiations which are unfruitful, pays 0 shares. 5 hours of board meeting negotiations in which a deal is reached, + 1000 hours of planning and development are compensated based on skill, mental effort and knowledge + resources used. Just like with the R&D example this may mean the board/CEO may get the majority of the shares to start with on the project, but only until his shares are paid off. If that was all the negotiation and planning necessary for the project, then he and the board have no more value to add till they make a new project or negotiate a new deal, so their shares drop to 0% in between projects and the workers and company upkeep get the rest.

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Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:19 am
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Post Re: Fixing the IRL Economy
Okay, assets = liability + equity, we got the math down.

In terms of taxes and social security, it will depend on the transaction rendered, be it private or public sector.

You might be right about how the stock market operates, given the abuse ignored by the WTO (and course of, the wrath of Muslims against the market set as law (in which they rise up in arms to settle the score). True, there are mishaps to happen against stock companies, but remember that they are not the only ones playing in the stock markets. There might be a national size/ranged stock market, but it is still just a part of the grand schemes to come.

In terms of bond market to replace stock market, bonds are technically loans. Anybody can take out a loan, but each person/entity must pass a financial background check. After all, there are criminals who take out a loan and try to run for it, regardless of declaration of bankruptcy or not. Debt collectors/repossessions/bondage (no, NOT EXTORTION COLLECTORS [that's a criminal felony violent enough for violent defense/retaliation]) might need a private/public army to assert ruling. As for bond holders, they would want their loan repaid plus interest rates and any negotiable profit margin to re-compensate the loss of wealth for the time being. I am not sure if the interest rate or profit margin being negotiated will be profitable enough. I mean, is the temporary loss plus interest rates and profit margin even worth it? Some may hope for a return in double the loan amount, but how much time is possible? Given the leeway for companies to go rogue, even to the point in killing off bond/loan holders in order to remove the loan status, bond/loan holders are the victims here (unless the bond/loan holder is an entity that can handle such situations on its own, most of time). Because bond/loan holders might need some insurance against very powerful debtors, there is a possibility that a court system must be established to handle such debt collection/repossession/bondage cases of various natures. Such newlines will have bond holders thinking hard about negotiating a contract with the said company. I don't know what is the deal with profit translation in the bond market idea, but I know that this bond/loan stuff could find the ultimate hippie revolution alternative in donations. We're talking about grass roots style in such a way. Whom to donate to, I don't know. I'm getting the feeling that you are aiming for a non-profit investment/loan/donation model for companies? I guess so, I mean, there are government grants for such companies. I guess maybe it's not enough?
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Huh, I guess investment funding is supply to be used, or exhausted, wasted?

Okay, so I critique a whole lot. Some help am I! What's my suggestion? I'll try, haha!
Economic solutions does not have to be a cookie cutter. Think outside the box.
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Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:57 pm
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